Curse

Etta · Oct 30, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

For a good artist, photoshop actually is worth the money.

QFT.
Our studio just got the CS3 set in, Photoshop, Illustrator etc. Pricey yes, but after awhile it'll pay for itself. Plus the company paid for it anyway, which is even better.

SotiCoto · Oct 30, 2007, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraphim

Plugins? Don't use 'em. Filters and plugins are for people who want to churn out stuff that looks identical to a ton of other dross out there.

Oh.... I forgot to mention this.
I do have a version of Photoshop on my comp.... but only for one reason:
Texturing.
I don't actually use it for graphical capabilities.... but for the NVidia plug-in that allowed me to save files in a very particular format ideal for texture-files, and that same plug-in was incompatible with Paint Shop Pro.
Some might consider it ironic that when I texture I have both open and do all the fancy graphical stuff in PSP .... but.... meh. Irony is my middle name.

Saraphim · Oct 30, 2007, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Ah if you mean the ability to save out files for gaming formats that's another matter. IIRC I had to use a plugin to save dds files out a while back. My apologies if I interpreted you wrong. I was thinking more of the get photo + add poster edges filter crowd.

the_jos · Oct 30, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

But I think the point is, the mod does change things, dramatically! I do not see the OP "belittling" someone. I see him expressing concern that suddenly those achievements that had one level of requirement are substantially easier to obtain. If someone wanders around trying to get that last .03%, that's entirely different than if someone can fire up the mod, jump to the map, and complete the final percentage in a matter of minutes.

Torqual, I understand your concerns, and this thread will be included in this week's community summary. I honestly don't expect that the game will be altered to revert the newly-changed parameters back to what they once were. But I will pass along how you feel about it, principally for future consideration.

Gaile,

Usually I would not comment to postings by A-net representatives, but in this case I think I need to add some thoughts on this.

I am one of the players that in the past used to compare maps for others here on guru, on the Tyrian forum. I even have my own sticky on Tyrian exploration, so I think I'm able to say some things on this subject.

There is no real difference in a map compare done by a human player (here on guru or selfcompare with graphics program) or a feature like Texmod.
Both would point out the missing spots.
The only difference is time, someone has to take screenshot, compare (takes longer when done by someone else) and go out exploring.
The .03% is a non-issue.

Texmod does give an 'advantage' to players that are on lower % uncovered, because most people comparing would not even bother to compare those maps (the original Tyrian requests would need Tyrian Master Cartographer for compares).
This might give advantage, but one has to consider that people start thinking about their first exploration title when they are on high % anyway.
There are very few people below 90% that are stuck, is my experience.
So I think most people would not even bother using Texmod (or other comparing tools) when exploring the first time.

That brings us to people who explore for on a second character.
Those should already know the drill, hit the wall, circle area and cross at the end. Start exploring early in the game.
This is as fast as doing a Texmod compare and when done right, a player does not miss a single spot.

I have had several discussions on Texmod in my guild and always use the "Hades compare" (my IGN, I still do compares for guildies if they need it) to the Texmod feature.
I still fail to see why Texmod would be a larger problem than any manual map compares.

elektra_lucia · Oct 30, 2007, 12:25 PM // 12:25

MMORPG's are so often about time. Time to grind, time to walk some place. It's an advantage, otherwise you wouldn't run it.

SotiCoto · Oct 30, 2007, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraphim

Ah if you mean the ability to save out files for gaming formats that's another matter. IIRC I had to use a plugin to save dds files out a while back. My apologies if I interpreted you wrong. I was thinking more of the get photo + add poster edges filter crowd.

Aye... well I know the feeling.
I've had a few graphical filters here and there along the way myself.... but more often than not they just seem like lazy copypaste options for people who don't know how to achieve the same effect manually.
For what it is worth.... most such effects I CAN duplicate in Paint Shop Pro .... though not in Photoshop, due to my reduced experience there.... so I don't need those plug-ins...

But the DDS save plug-in is totally essential to me.
I haven't used it so much recently as I used to.... but I once was an active part of the Morrowind modding community... albeit with only two released mods.... and I made extensive use of DDS files there. I did similar things for a while with clothing products for IMVU .... but my girlfriend doesn't approve of that so I don't do it so much any more.

The crazy thing is that the DDS NVidia plug-in was SUPPOSED to work with Paint Shop Pro.... but it didn't for me. I could only get it to work with Photoshop (which required that I get Photoshop from some dodgy Russian disc that my former flatmate owned). As such I now need both open to do any texturing. Most folks might not think much of PSP... but with experience a LOT can be wrung out of it.

TheRaven · Oct 30, 2007, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Wow, what a thread. I'm really surprised that Gaile chose the side that she did, but I'm guessing that's just because she doesn't know all the facts.

Is using textmod to gain a cartography title cheating?

I really don't know the answer to that one. I think ArenaNet is the only one that can truly answer that question. However if textmod is ruled to be cheating then so must a lot of other things. Textmod is a shortcut showing you exactly where your map is lacking. Those of you who feel that textmod cartography is cheating, how do you feel on these other subjects?

- a player that posts his map on the forum and gets another player to put little red circles on it where he's missing spots.
- using photoshop to compare maps
- using Wiki to find exactly where an Elite skill can be capped.
- using Wiki to find exactly where that perfect 20/20 collectable curses staff can be obtained.
- using Wiki to know exactly where the drops are for the above collector.
- Posting your newbie mesmer build on the forums and asking for help perfecting it for TA.
- Using Wiki to find the perfect build to defeat Doppleganger/Rotscale/Bison Tourney/Ice Griffon/Abaddon/Shiro
- Using Wiki to discover mission/bonus shortcuts (Gyala Hatchery backroad, Dunes of Despair Traversal trick)

All of those examples use the experience of other players to achieve a personal goal. How many of you that are whining about the textmod trick used one or more of the above aids? Hmmm?

Ok, off-topic, but I gotta ask. What the heck is the Eredon Terrace glitch??? I've unfogged everyplace around Eredon Terrace and didn't use a glitch.

elektra_lucia · Oct 30, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

(which required that I get Photoshop from some dodgy Russian disc that my former flatmate owned)

It sounds to me like you are comparing a knowledgeable view of one product with an ignorant view of another product and then trying to be a salesman. It is not really a good comparison.

Quote:

All of those examples use the experience of other players to achieve a personal goal. How many of you that are whining about the textmod trick used one or more of the above aids? Hmmm?

I didn't do any of the above and I think textmod is wrong.

Voltar · Oct 30, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

I think the word for what you're talking about is, "jealous." That's what's at the center of most, "moral outrage."

boxterduke · Oct 30, 2007, 12:46 PM // 12:46

EDIT: just saw Gail's thread so this goes for her and the OP
==============================================

To the OP, this program is not different from the threads here on guru where people used to post their 98%, 99% maps to allow others to compare them and then circle the spots that are missing.

This program is just eliminating the human help that is all.

All of us used these threads to get help from others, I used the thread here on Guru to get my 100% Elona since I was stuck on 99.1% and for the life of me I could not find the remaining .9% and thanks to Livingston's and Silent Vex help I got my 100%
Once they circled the spots I'm missing I just ran to them same as what the OP said happened to his friends.

SotiCoto · Oct 30, 2007, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

Ok, off-topic, but I gotta ask. What the heck is the Eredon Terrace glitch??? I've unfogged everyplace around Eredon Terrace and didn't use a glitch.

Speaking as someone who was once (for about 2 days) in a Guild that was in the Alliance that owned Eredon Terrace...

... It is an area in the sectioned off part at the back (i.e. you need to have access to get through the gate) where you can get behind part of the scenery and basically run rampant in the mountains.... sorta like that bit in Talus Chute on the East Side.

It is possible to get right to the edge of the map and find the "line" where the world ends.

Now I think about it I was ridiculously lucky to get access to that place.

On a slightly easier note.... I also used the Dunes of Despair corpse-teleport trick along with the herohench flag trick to safely map out that mission area.... and likewise used the same trick to get to Rurik's path in the Frost Gate mission (which uncovers a large chunk). Couldn't manage the one in the Wilds though unfortunately.
Honestly... I find tricks like these great fun.
There is another small area in the Northern Shiverpeaks (old Northern; not GW:EN) where you can similarly run along a mountain ridge.... but I can't remember where precisely it was any more. That was one that I found myself by grinding the walls, rather than being told about it.

Saraphim · Oct 30, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

I can't really say much about PSP as I've never used it for any length of time.

/sorry for derailing the thread a bit. My point was mostly a semantic (and somewhat petty) poke about the complaints that one form of 'cheating' (comparing maps) was somehow more acceptable than another (using Texmod), particularly given that I suspect that a proportion of people using one programme without paying for it are bitching that another group are using a eula breaking* method to achieve the same end. Which I find hypocritical.

* One which Arena.net have not exactly endorsed, but certainly haven't threatened to ban anyone over and in fact you can find links and references to on the official wiki.

ForgeWhelp · Oct 30, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

Wow, what a thread. I'm really surprised that Gaile chose the side that she did, but I'm guessing that's just because she doesn't know all the facts.

Is using textmod to gain a cartography title cheating?

I really don't know the answer to that one. I think ArenaNet is the only one that can truly answer that question. However if textmod is ruled to be cheating then so must a lot of other things. Textmod is a shortcut showing you exactly where your map is lacking. Those of you who feel that textmod cartography is cheating, how do you feel on these other subjects?

- a player that posts his map on the forum and gets another player to put little red circles on it where he's missing spots.
- using photoshop to compare maps
- using Wiki to find exactly where an Elite skill can be capped.
- using Wiki to find exactly where that perfect 20/20 collectable curses staff can be obtained.
- using Wiki to know exactly where the drops are for the above collector.
- Posting your newbie mesmer build on the forums and asking for help perfecting it for TA.
- Using Wiki to find the perfect build to defeat Doppleganger/Rotscale/Bison Tourney/Ice Griffon/Abaddon/Shiro
- Using Wiki to discover mission/bonus shortcuts (Gyala Hatchery backroad, Dunes of Despair Traversal trick)

All of those examples use the experience of other players to achieve a personal goal. How many of you that are whining about the textmod trick used one or more of the above aids? Hmmm?

Ok, off-topic, but I gotta ask. What the heck is the Eredon Terrace glitch??? I've unfogged everyplace around Eredon Terrace and didn't use a glitch.

I like this post!

And Texmod isn't perfect. After a week of trying to get the last .2% with texmod and failing I still paid someone to spot the last .2% for me. Do I feel less of a person because I didn't play it 'your' way? Nope. I did what I needed to to achieve my goal. You needed to do things differently to achieve your goal.

elektra_lucia · Oct 30, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

I like this post!

And Texmod isn't perfect. After a week of trying to get the last .2% with texmod and failing I still paid someone to spot the last .2% for me. Do I feel less of a person because I didn't play it 'your' way? Nope. I did what I needed to to achieve my goal. You needed to do things differently to achieve your goal.

Well I'm going to sell my soul on ebay and buy 64,800,000 gold so I can get phoenix on my second account. I do what I need to achieve my goal at any cost.

.

Wait... Maybe I won't sell my soul, I will download a bot to droks farm or something? :].

Bryant Again · Oct 30, 2007, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Im just going by what the OPer stated. He said that a mod exists to highlight those areas you need to uncover. That sounds like cartog to me!

The "challenge" or "task" isn't in just unhighlighting the areas, it's exploring those areas with those characters. The mods do not give you any bonus percantges to how much you've uncovered whatsoever. A person still has to go over every nook and cranny before he's given the full and maxed title.

It is no different than what we've been doing since the first map was posted. It's just a less annoying route. There's still the time grind. That will not change.

ForgeWhelp · Oct 30, 2007, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Well I'm going to sell my soul on ebay and buy 64,800,000 gold so I can get phoenix on my second account. I do what I need to achieve my goal at any cost.

.

Wait... Maybe I won't sell my soul, I will download a bot to droks farm or something? :].

Good luck. The human soul has become quite devalued over the last couple of centuries...a shame really....

Jecht Scye · Oct 30, 2007, 12:58 PM // 12:58

I did Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer a bit ago. I didn't use the texmod thing because I thought it would have been cheap to. I don't mind others that do though, it's their choice and it has no effect on me.

Wulfgast · Oct 30, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Sheesh... of all the things Anet needs to be working on, this is actually going to get some attention?

Just to be a jerk, I'm going to start mapping today before the modding gets nerfed somehow.

elektra_lucia · Oct 30, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

An extreme exaggeration here.

Jecht Scye: Supposing you are proud of your title, and perhaps want to show it off a little in town. Then magically there is a program you can use that when you press the letter M twice, it does what you have achieved. Instantly! You don't use this program, but everyone else does. Essentially de-valuing your title.

Can you see how this would effect you?

ForgeWhelp · Oct 30, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

I just realized theat the OP and many others are those guys that get mad that I decided to pay someone to run me from Ascalon to Grotto for my prestige armor instead of fighting my way thru with my 8th toon.

If ANet out and out says they don't have any issues with it, then I don't feel bad about doing it. And you can't make me feel bad for it. I've logged over 1400 hours playing GW and all of it's expansions, I think I've earned my right to take a short cut here or there if it helps keep me playing the game and buying their stuff...